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Post by anonsa on Jun 10, 2016 2:00:26 GMT
[Mod Note: This post has been relocated to a more appropriate thread. Apologies for the first few posts in our new Critique section being somewhat jumbled, it's an ugly side effect of merging threads.]
Hello, I am just here to share an opinion:
The self-inserts kind of ruin the whole thing. I think most people would appreciate the fan ending more if it stuck with what's canon.
That said, I can understand wanting to have a self-insert in there, and that's fine, really! But making her strife with Hussie? That's just... pretty much very cringe-y.
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Post by bluebird on Jun 10, 2016 3:28:03 GMT
Want to let Team 8 know what aspects of Act 8 you think are working particularly well, and/or which areas you think have been less successful? This is the place for it! Just remember, the Rules of Conduct still apply here. |
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Post by austinado on Jun 10, 2016 3:35:14 GMT
not enough bart 0/10 never working on this comic again
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Post by bluebird on Jun 10, 2016 3:39:02 GMT
Hi anonsa! The Space & Time board isn't really the appropriate venue for general Act 8 critique, but I realize that there wasn't an obvious preexisting thread for it, either. I have corrected this, and created an Act 8 Critique thread in the Act 8: General Chat board. I will be whooshing both your post and this reply to the correct thread momentarily. This way we we can keep the Space & Time assignment threads tidy and on-topic for the creative team. [Mod Note: The whooshing has been completed] |
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Post by lostchaos on Jun 20, 2016 0:32:01 GMT
Art and music are good. Also, I don't see problems with the author avatar girl as long as she doesn't directly interfere with the story.
The sprite alterations and design headcannons, however... that is a lot of cringe for me to bear.
Also, most of the dialogue feels forced. Necessary buildup isn't present. Characters actions have been way too spontaneous.
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Post by manlystarman on Jun 20, 2016 3:12:01 GMT
Admittedly I find the changes from Canon character designs also odd? I'm not sure if they are cringe worthy but I'm not sure why bother as well? Also, while I think it's neat like stuff with artists able to draw the characters the way they sort of headcanon them I find it will be an issue with consistency later on. Since as I remember it this won't necessarily be a constant throughout. Also you are kinda opening the floodgates for criticism and negativity that way in my opinion? Like, just cuz it was the most stand out example Karkat and Porrim. I think it's just better to stick with what's Canon and when it's up to interpretation go with the basic and natural ways Hussie would draw the characters all the same. This is just my view on it though.
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Post by leonardo doujinshi on Jun 28, 2016 21:23:12 GMT
Also, most of the dialogue feels forced. Necessary buildup isn't present. Characters actions have been way too spontaneous. Do remember that Act 8 is a direct continuation from where canon left off, so there should've been enough buildup in the Act 7 animation. The reason it seems so spontaneous is because the events are all happening at the same time, but in different locations. |
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Post by galaxster on Jun 29, 2016 7:08:29 GMT
Admittedly I find the changes from Canon character designs also odd? I'm not sure if they are cringe worthy but I'm not sure why bother as well? Also, while I think it's neat like stuff with artists able to draw the characters the way they sort of headcanon them I find it will be an issue with consistency later on. Since as I remember it this won't necessarily be a constant throughout. Also you are kinda opening the floodgates for criticism and negativity that way in my opinion? Like, just cuz it was the most stand out example Karkat and Porrim. I think it's just better to stick with what's Canon and when it's up to interpretation go with the basic and natural ways Hussie would draw the characters all the same. This is just my view on it though. are you trying to imply that the "canon" way to draw these characters are skinny (karkat) and with white textured hair? (porrim) who cares if it's a "consistency" issue later on, this is a fan project and i personally find it empowering to be able to draw these loved characters the way we envision them ourselves. and if it's really that cringey to some people, perhaps they just shouldn't read it. but hey, this is just my view on it ;oP |
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Post by manlystarman on Jun 30, 2016 13:44:14 GMT
And you raise a good point galaxster. It is ultimately only a small detail that I saw talked about before elsewhere and I thought I would say my stance on it. This is the critique section. But I also said that having that freedom is a nice thing. The nice thing about Homestuck is you are free to interpret a lot in whatever way you see fit. But just the way I see it, I see it as an odd deviation. And you're free to disagree with me.
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calicorn
Reader
currently stuck in panel hell
Posts: 11 
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Post by calicorn on Jul 1, 2016 9:11:04 GMT
Also, most of the dialogue feels forced. Necessary buildup isn't present. Characters actions have been way too spontaneous. Do remember that Act 8 is a direct continuation from where canon left off, so there should've been enough buildup in the Act 7 animation. The reason it seems so spontaneous is because the events are all happening at the same time, but in different locations. Pretty much like how the end of Act 5 was (cough cough SCRATCH) |
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Post by just a guy on Jul 2, 2016 10:28:06 GMT
I really love the work you guys are doing,and you can really tell this is a labor of love staying true to the source material but also providing the opportunity for something really amazing, and i really belive it WAS hussie intention for the fans to "take over" Homestuck.
it was a little disheartening seeing Homestuck end the way it did specifically touched apon with the tumbler article "Why "The Characters Escaped The Comic" Is Not a Satisfying Ending for Homestuck" by purplepurpleunicorns. In the article she states " struck by the fact that I didn’t know why the kids were actually trying to make this frog - I never got the sense that they particularly wanted to be gods of a new universe - not even with the trolls, who had actually done it before and did have some feelings about it." which for most of the fanbase really rings true to them and that what i feel is quite disheartening about the last act. she goes on to state "Thematically, everything was leading up to an ending where the characters overcame the grip of Paradox Space and made their own destiny." this would be an awesome revelation for the characters to go through and a real possibility right now to come into throughition, instead of "A victory without a choice is just a fucking coincidence. And the only choice they made was to walk through that damn door and start the cycle all over again." act 8 can really tip the scales here, i love the work you are producing and i cant wait for each upd8 :3
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Post by lostchaos on Jul 3, 2016 3:44:12 GMT
Also, most of the dialogue feels forced. Necessary buildup isn't present. Characters actions have been way too spontaneous. Do remember that Act 8 is a direct continuation from where canon left off, so there should've been enough buildup in the Act 7 animation. The reason it seems so spontaneous is because the events are all happening at the same time, but in different locations. Nooope. Even with that in mind that thing was forced. Dialogue and designs feel more as if the author is *wanting* it to be that way without actually caring. A common mistake with inexperient fanfiction writers. Actions need motivations and words need reasons. As much as this is a fanwork, it is important to remember you can't simply rush or put in whatever you want if your goal is a good story. And so far, in this 77 page story what we have is this: lack of build up, actions and speeches there for the sake of it. The way I see it, whoever wrote this is an amateur, that lacks practice and experience. This a place for criticizing and here is mine: this has potential. But the way this story is going, this potential will go to waste. Whoever is writing this has an idea of where it is going, but you can't sacrifice a process for a result nor a Middle to an End. Just because someone wants something there, you can't simply post it there like that without reasons to, before all else, the characters itself. |
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Post by lostchaos on Jul 3, 2016 3:52:52 GMT
Admittedly I find the changes from Canon character designs also odd? I'm not sure if they are cringe worthy but I'm not sure why bother as well? Also, while I think it's neat like stuff with artists able to draw the characters the way they sort of headcanon them I find it will be an issue with consistency later on. Since as I remember it this won't necessarily be a constant throughout. Also you are kinda opening the floodgates for criticism and negativity that way in my opinion? Like, just cuz it was the most stand out example Karkat and Porrim. I think it's just better to stick with what's Canon and when it's up to interpretation go with the basic and natural ways Hussie would draw the characters all the same. This is just my view on it though. are you trying to imply that the "canon" way to draw these characters are skinny (karkat) and with white textured hair? (porrim) who cares if it's a "consistency" issue later on, this is a fan project and i personally find it empowering to be able to draw these loved characters the way we envision them ourselves. and if it's really that cringey to some people, perhaps they just shouldn't read it. but hey, this is just my view on it ;oP Well, a lot of people ''care'' about it and many have a different opinion than yours. If you see the reaction of many people, it would range from disgust to laughing at those designs. Besides, this in itself shows something about whoever is doing this: if they don't care for canon portrayal, then for what do they care? If they want to make a story this way, changing designs, who can say about whatever else they will? A little of a change here, a bit there. These things pile as time passes. It is not because the fans have power in writing a story that they should change it as they please, after all, the downfall of many stories is an author that would self-insert in a character to the point it would become little more than a marionette and events in the story would change just for the character in particular to be pleased. Or maybe it is these little two characters that seem so lovely together that ''hey, let's pair them up!'' or something of the likes. Self-control and some degree of impartiality and calmness are needed when you write. The moment you stop caring in something for the sake of another is the point you start losing sight of everything's importance for the overall story |
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Post by Voidfire on Jul 6, 2016 3:51:42 GMT
are you trying to imply that the "canon" way to draw these characters are skinny (karkat) and with white textured hair? (porrim) who cares if it's a "consistency" issue later on, this is a fan project and i personally find it empowering to be able to draw these loved characters the way we envision them ourselves. and if it's really that cringey to some people, perhaps they just shouldn't read it. but hey, this is just my view on it ;oP Well, a lot of people ''care'' about it and many have a different opinion than yours. If you see the reaction of many people, it would range from disgust to laughing at those designs. Besides, this in itself shows something about whoever is doing this: if they don't care for canon portrayal, then for what do they care? If they want to make a story this way, changing designs, who can say about whatever else they will? A little of a change here, a bit there. These things pile as time passes. It is not because the fans have power in writing a story that they should change it as they please, after all, the downfall of many stories is an author that would self-insert in a character to the point it would become little more than a marionette and events in the story would change just for the character in particular to be pleased. Or maybe it is these little two characters that seem so lovely together that ''hey, let's pair them up!'' or something of the likes. Self-control and some degree of impartiality and calmness are needed when you write. The moment you stop caring in something for the sake of another is the point you start losing sight of everything's importance for the overall story I think it's a more complicated issue than you give it credit for. At the very least, it has all been very in-character, and the dialogue honestly didn't seem forced to me. If you see what was supposed to be the culmination of your victory explode in your face, literally or metaphorically, would you not get angry about it? Or if the very space around you was fracturing around you, would you not ask for answers, or explain the disturbing phenomena to someone who is uninformed? As for the depictions, I agree, but for a totally different reason. The depictions of the characters in-canon were abstract on purpose, Hussie himself said that how the characters are drawn has no effect on their height, weight, race, or anything of the like. Drawing them in a different style might be totally fine if the point is to draw your personal depictions of them, but most of the characters were did still retain most of their anonymity regarding those traits! Adding just a few stark changes from their traditional depection in particular while leaving most of the characters completely untouched implies either a dissonance between the artists who drew them or bias toward not only those traits, but also those characters!
Anyway, apart from the fact that filling out the rest would make it so readers can't hold on to their personal headcanons on how they actually look, and while I have no personal problem with the liberties taken so far (it's kind of refreshing, actually!) it would probably cause major problems due to the inconsistencies if all the artists decided to do their own thing! Artistically it's fine, but an art style that changes so starkly does unnecessarily hinder the already thinner suspension of disbelief that a fan project like this must rest on! I really do have to say how awesome all the art and animation has been so far though, easily matching (probably even exceeding!) what Homestuck looked like before the 'final stretch' of recent pages!! |
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Post by GallopingDiskHorse on Jul 6, 2016 7:00:13 GMT
are you trying to imply that the "canon" way to draw these characters are skinny (karkat) and with white textured hair? (porrim) who cares if it's a "consistency" issue later on, this is a fan project and i personally find it empowering to be able to draw these loved characters the way we envision them ourselves. and if it's really that cringey to some people, perhaps they just shouldn't read it. but hey, this is just my view on it ;oP Well, a lot of people ''care'' about it and many have a different opinion than yours. If you see the reaction of many people, it would range from disgust to laughing at those designs. Besides, this in itself shows something about whoever is doing this: if they don't care for canon portrayal, then for what do they care? If they want to make a story this way, changing designs, who can say about whatever else they will? A little of a change here, a bit there. These things pile as time passes. It is not because the fans have power in writing a story that they should change it as they please, after all, the downfall of many stories is an author that would self-insert in a character to the point it would become little more than a marionette and events in the story would change just for the character in particular to be pleased. Or maybe it is these little two characters that seem so lovely together that ''hey, let's pair them up!'' or something of the likes. Self-control and some degree of impartiality and calmness are needed when you write. The moment you stop caring in something for the sake of another is the point you start losing sight of everything's importance for the overall story Happily enough, a lot of people have already seen these designs, wholeheartedly love them and appreciate them for what they are--fanworks and headcanons--and are not trying to bloviate on the internet until someone else changes their mind and whitewashes said designs back into your personal routine comfort zone--which isn't going to happen, regardless. The entire point of the ending, as I understand it, is to tie up loose ends and bring the story to a resolution that satisfies the team working on it, and hopefully some other people in the process. There's already been a pretty good response there! If you're worried about the story "changing" then maybe you should stick with Strict Canon and read no further, because any continuation is going to "change" something by virtue of ENDING it. The matter of shipping has already been discussed, and it seems there isn't going to be anything introduced that wasn't introduced in canon, merely some of those loose ends tied up instead of left dangling. This also isn't a romance fanfic, and no one involved seems to be laboring under the impression that it might suddenly become one. There has been quite a lot of discussion of all characters involved, by people who are supportive of and invested in said characters, and most of us have our special favorites, but no one is out to character-assassinate our least favorites or turn the story into a tale of '(insert character here) wins everything and does all the good things and is the only one relevant to the entire plot', because that would be an incredibly boring and cheap ending, and is in fact a big part of the problems many people have with the canon ending, as it stands. Or maybe that's just my problem with it. Mostly I find it a bit funny that anyone in here preaching impartiality and calmness is criticizing curly hair and some pudge as if it suddenly became impossible to recognize the characters via a host of other cues, such as color, dialogue, horns, or clothing. How did y'all survive the leaps from regular sprites to talksprites to hero mode to walksprites without becoming completely confused, then? There is no good reason to assume just because no one ever pointed at Karkat in canon and said "hey, you're fat", that he must be skinny. There is also no good reason to assume just because no one ever pointed at Dave in canon and said "hey, you're black", that he must be white. Odds of four/eight random humans pulled off of planet Earth all being white are in fact quite low. I certainly have never gone around informing my friends of their size, shape, or skin tone, as if maybe they didn't know without my assistance. If that's a routine part of your daily conversations... well, it's unfortunate for your friends, I guess. Honestly, my take on this whole issue is that the reason it offends so many random dudes on the internet is simply: they've been quietly mentally self-inserting themselves as Dave and/or Karkat for years, and now it's really jarring to them to be faced with a character model that they have negative subconscious or conscious feelings about, especially when they would rather talk circles around the issue than admit that they might have those negative feelings and get over them. |
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