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Post by lostchaos on Jul 7, 2016 2:58:35 GMT
Happily enough, a lot of people have already seen these designs, wholeheartedly love them and appreciate them for what they are--fanworks and headcanons--and are not trying to bloviate on the internet until someone else changes their mind and whitewashes said designs back into your personal routine comfort zone--which isn't going to happen, regardless. The entire point of the ending, as I understand it, is to tie up loose ends and bring the story to a resolution that satisfies the team working on it, and hopefully some other people in the process. There's already been a pretty good response there! If you're worried about the story "changing" then maybe you should stick with Strict Canon and read no further, because any continuation is going to "change" something by virtue of ENDING it. The matter of shipping has already been discussed, and it seems there isn't going to be anything introduced that wasn't introduced in canon, merely some of those loose ends tied up instead of left dangling. This also isn't a romance fanfic, and no one involved seems to be laboring under the impression that it might suddenly become one. There has been quite a lot of discussion of all characters involved, by people who are supportive of and invested in said characters, and most of us have our special favorites, but no one is out to character-assassinate our least favorites or turn the story into a tale of '(insert character here) wins everything and does all the good things and is the only one relevant to the entire plot', because that would be an incredibly boring and cheap ending, and is in fact a big part of the problems many people have with the canon ending, as it stands. Or maybe that's just my problem with it. Mostly I find it a bit funny that anyone in here preaching impartiality and calmness is criticizing curly hair and some pudge as if it suddenly became impossible to recognize the characters via a host of other cues, such as color, dialogue, horns, or clothing. How did y'all survive the leaps from regular sprites to talksprites to hero mode to walksprites without becoming completely confused, then? There is no good reason to assume just because no one ever pointed at Karkat in canon and said "hey, you're fat", that he must be skinny. There is also no good reason to assume just because no one ever pointed at Dave in canon and said "hey, you're black", that he must be white. Odds of four/eight random humans pulled off of planet Earth all being white are in fact quite low. I certainly have never gone around informing my friends of their size, shape, or skin tone, as if maybe they didn't know without my assistance. If that's a routine part of your daily conversations... well, it's unfortunate for your friends, I guess. Honestly, my take on this whole issue is that the reason it offends so many random dudes on the internet is simply: they've been quietly mentally self-inserting themselves as Dave and/or Karkat for years, and now it's really jarring to them to be faced with a character model that they have negative subconscious or conscious feelings about, especially when they would rather talk circles around the issue than admit that they might have those negative feelings and get over them. I don't see exactly how something must be changed by the virtue of the ending. Act 8 so far, isn't it about portraying whatever happens between after Collide and the entrance on the New Universe? We are dealing with a blank slate here, with some events mentioned (example: battle of the 8 human kids versus Caliborn). If by change you meant one of those mentioned events, then I guess you are right. This would exceed the limit of what a good story is able to modify and I would be better off reading another one. Now, for your counter-argument used against me. Impressive strategy, certaintly good for politics when you are dealing with an election or the likes. But if I'm not mistaken, this was about criticizing Act 8, not one another. And, you mistake me and a few things. 1- Talksprites and the like, they are before all, symbolical representations. The art used in Act 8 wasn't this type. They are a different kind. 2- If they were represented mostly in a type of style the whole comic, then they should be left as that. Why? Because we have no way to determine how they really are. It isn't a matter of if it's correct or incorrect. It's more into it shows that the author wants its own view to be the right one. And this isn't promising. Not in the slightest. Because it goes right back to my point: if the author would alter designs to the way they see fit, then it just serves as clue of what is to come: personalities and the story, altered without care or buildup. 3- You judged my speech about impartiality, however you can clearly read that I wrote ''some degree of impartiality''. I wrote it that way essentially for people to not make the mistake you did when you interpreted me. I didn't say the author had to be impartial. An 100% impartial author doesnt exist the first place. However, the art of writing is about control. An author must control his emotions, not the opposite. Why did the designs get changed in the first place? Isn't it because the person taht did it felt they would be better off like that? Doesn't that essentially mean that this isn't where it ends? That there will be this little character he/she loves so much that he would want good things to happen to the character? Or the opposite for one he/she dislikes? This is one of the most common mistakes for an amateur writer. And in Homestuck, trials and tribulations are important for everyone. You see: designs are simple. No one should care about them. The normal question to ask yourself when doing should be ''then why change it if it isn't important?'' I take it as: if it was modified just like that, without second thought, then the plot isn't safe either. And, from the dialogues so far, these suspicions are only being confirmed little by little 4- What was that line about friends size and the likes supposed to mean in the first place? And the one of ''If that's a routine part of your daily conversations... well, it's unfortunate for your friends, I guess.''? Are you trying to mock me with whatever you imply? Does that mean that you ran out of arguments and instead seek some reaction out of me? To insult me or my friends in some way? Again, this is a place for criticizing Act 8, not one another. If you can't understand that, then don't try to spur needless strife or bash on others. If this wasn't your goal, then mind your own words before addressing someone else. I did nothing directed at you in particular to deserve your mockery or insults. Now, ignoring this little derail and going for your last paragraph: I don't see how someone would get offended by those changes. I don't even understand what would lead a person to insert themselves into the characters you mentioned. The problem I have with those changes is the mark it carried: one of a person that didn't care about what their actions carried. An innocent change, caused by emotion right at that time, without second thought. Something that can be repeated over and over again and again.
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Post by The Lord Of Void on Jul 17, 2016 21:48:38 GMT
Greetings! I'll Just Make This Quick. 1. I Notice That You Changed Some Characters Hair (Porrim). 2. Seeing As How One Of Your Rules Protect The Clown, Will You Also Bring Gamzee Back Because Of His "Plot Armor". 3.I Love What Your Doing So Far, Keep Up The Good Work. With This I Am Done For Now. I Will See You Around. As The Lord Of Void I See The Potential This Has Even If Its Hidden From The Evil Eyes.
Truth Until Paradox \(0-0)/
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Post by Some Guy on Sept 18, 2016 17:11:31 GMT
Hi. I'd like to give my two cents on Act 8 and give some criticisms I have for it.
Act 8, while visually appealing and interesting in concept, is flawed in execution. I'll list off a few gripes I have with it:
-Character interactions, as previously mentioned by another user, just feel forced and contrived. While Homestuck itself did have some unique character interaction, it felt more natural and fit quite in. I can't pinpoint exactly what makes it natural, but I just suppose it's the way it's executed. Characters in this feel like they're talking for the sake of including them rather than having it genuinely feel like their thoughts. However, that's not to say all conversations are executed in a forced manner; the recent Jake & Kanaya and Dave & Dirk ones feel rather natural to me. But, again, it feels like characters are talking for the sake of talking rather than naturally voicing their thoughts as they did in the source material.
-At times, the writing feels iffy and tries too hard to capture what Homestuck did so excellently in its 8,000 pages. That is, the more confusing and ambiguous structure of the writing and character dialogue. Now granted, this is an incredibly hard thing to mock, however it still doesn't quite capture it. It goes too far down the confusing road, and this is especially seen with Alt-Calliope's dialogue. It feels like, at least to me, she jumps from point to point without it being fluid or having it make some sort of sense. It did get a bit better during her conversation with Gamzee (though he also felt a bit confusing there as well, what with the story leaning too hard on his informal tone of speech, though that's more of a minor nitpick I suppose), though it's still not perfect. It's as if the story tries too hard to make her and the writing seem ambiguous, confusing, and mysterious, but ultimately falls flat on its face.
-Characters can, at times, feel a bit out of character. This is mostly seen a bit earlier on, and relates to my first complaint, but I see this with Gamzee as well. Now, his arc is interesting and mostly well done, however it just feels like you're relying too hard on his slang and whatnot, as mentioned prior. He does speak with it frequently, but it's always clear what he's trying to convey. In A8, it's harder to get what he's saying, and mixed in with the Alt-Calliope dialogue, it falls flat there as well. But, as I said before, this is more of a nitpick, and given the story's trends, the writers tend to adapt the characters better as they go on.
-Fan pandering. This is one of my biggest gripes with the story. It feels like you're trying to resolve every issue people had with the comic, i.e the morality of the dead Roxy, John's powers, John and Dad Crocker's meetup, etc. Not to mention how with these, it feels like you didn't quite grasp what the comic stated or showed well, like how Jane didn't at all mind John and Dad Crocker's meetup, or how John's powers have been observed to generally only allow him manually to teleport to locations himself or other people have been, so long as he uses the passwords Terezi made (this hasn't necessarily been stated, as it's more or less just fan speculation that stems from the wiki, but it is important to consider this interpretation, as it could've provided a better limitation for why John doesn't teleport them into the new universe simply because 'it's too much responsibility,' even though he stated he'd use it under dire circumstances). If you are to incorporate anymore, it'd be better to have them flow in naturally over conversation instead of abruptly have them come forth, like in the Dave & Dirk conversation.
If I have anymore criticisms to offer, I'll list them here. I do wish you luck with creating this, as besides the issues I've listed, it's a well written continuation to Homestuck's ending with a rather interesting premise.
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Post by Momo on Sept 19, 2016 19:26:58 GMT
Thanks, Some Guy. These are all things I've thought in my own head, so without flattering myself I can tell you have a good attention to detail.
I actually do have a problem right now in that I'm working at capacity and still can't get things adjusted how I want; there's just not enough me to go around between the project's many facets and the kind of obligations that keep me alive, no matter how much sleep I lose. And I lose. A lot of sleep. An unsustainable amount, really.
When I tend to ask for writers, I get editors, as in the case of the Dirk and Dave log-- not that I'm complaining, editors are the best, and without them my illiterate ass would be in huge trouble. The amount of typos in that last update before Ashen got to it was downright shameful. But editors are more of a curation deal; they don't actually reduce the amount of work I need to do, if anything they increase it. Austin and I still wrote that log ourselves. So ultimately my biggest obstacle right now is time. This is a long way of saying, do you like writing pesterlogs? Would you want to join in and contribute, or would you feel kind of uncomfortable with that? And I'll warn you, this is super demanding stuff. I'm also aware it's a bit of a weird request, and that I might take some time in answering, since I've already got a few cats to herd. Either way, thanks for your time.
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Post by Some Guy on Sept 20, 2016 19:35:29 GMT
Thanks, Some Guy. These are all things I've thought in my own head, so without flattering myself I can tell you have a good attention to detail. I actually do have a problem right now in that I'm working at capacity and still can't get things adjusted how I want; there's just not enough me to go around between the project's many facets and the kind of obligations that keep me alive, no matter how much sleep I lose. And I lose. A lot of sleep. An unsustainable amount, really. When I tend to ask for writers, I get editors, as in the case of the Dirk and Dave log-- not that I'm complaining, editors are the best, and without them my illiterate ass would be in huge trouble. The amount of typos in that last update before Ashen got to it was downright shameful. But editors are more of a curation deal; they don't actually reduce the amount of work I need to do, if anything they increase it. Austin and I still wrote that log ourselves. So ultimately my biggest obstacle right now is time. This is a long way of saying, do you like writing pesterlogs? Would you want to join in and contribute, or would you feel kind of uncomfortable with that? And I'll warn you, this is super demanding stuff. I'm also aware it's a bit of a weird request, and that I might take some time in answering, since I've already got a few cats to herd. Either way, thanks for your time. Don't overwork yourself too much, your followers wouldn't want to see you suffer to produce A8. Your sanity and health is more important. I'm honestly really flattered to be offered this, and while I am tempted to say yes, I do have a few questions regarding it, namely about how demanding it is and what to expect. I can't guarantee my being able to work on this day and night, since I have a fanventure of my own as well as things like school, so I hope you understand.
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Post by Momo on Sept 21, 2016 3:44:50 GMT
Don't overwork yourself too much, your followers wouldn't want to see you suffer to produce A8. Your sanity and health is more important. I'm honestly really flattered to be offered this, and while I am tempted to say yes, I do have a few questions regarding it, namely about how demanding it is and what to expect. I can't guarantee my being able to work on this day and night, since I have a fanventure of my own as well as things like school, so I hope you understand. It's very, very demanding. The Core team is pretty much on call at least four days out of the week for their evenings. (I'm here for seven.) But I absolutely understand. Best of luck on your fanventure, I bet it's awesome, and if you ever have a spare minute and even just wanna chill out and put in your two cents, feel welcome. And feel free to get in touch with bluebird if you ever feel like writing just a log or two, in about a month we should have some stuff that's easier to delegate to folks that aren't totally entrenched in this stuff.
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Post by Some Guy on Sept 21, 2016 19:14:18 GMT
Don't overwork yourself too much, your followers wouldn't want to see you suffer to produce A8. Your sanity and health is more important. I'm honestly really flattered to be offered this, and while I am tempted to say yes, I do have a few questions regarding it, namely about how demanding it is and what to expect. I can't guarantee my being able to work on this day and night, since I have a fanventure of my own as well as things like school, so I hope you understand. It's very, very demanding. The Core team is pretty much on call at least four days out of the week for their evenings. (I'm here for seven.) But I absolutely understand. Best of luck on your fanventure, I bet it's awesome, and if you ever have a spare minute and even just wanna chill out and put in your two cents, feel welcome. And feel free to get in touch with bluebird if you ever feel like writing just a log or two, in about a month we should have some stuff that's easier to delegate to folks that aren't totally entrenched in this stuff. Ah yeah, then I definitely wouldn't be able to be part of the Core team, since I don't even really have a set weekly schedule. Thank you very much! I'll probably make an account on here soon just for convenience's sake, probably under the name Yufery. I'll be sure to stick around, then, since I am interested in helping out, even if only in minor ways.
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Post by Lucy on Oct 17, 2016 0:11:03 GMT
Hey! Honestly this comic has been great so far, this is more of a question tha. a critique. Why do Tavros and Sollux have grievances with each other? They hardly talked in canon, but Sollux gladly followed Tavros out of (Vriska)'s pir8 brigade and never really bothered Tavros (which is saying a lot, because he bothers literally everyone else).
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Post by MiroTech Software on Oct 18, 2016 18:41:53 GMT
Hello! I just want to say that your (whoever "your" may be referring to) work is very much appreciated.
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Probably Needs To Chill
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Post by Probably Needs To Chill on Oct 22, 2016 17:53:50 GMT
I'll try to keep this brief and I want to start with some compliments, because you guys are doing a fantastic job in places. Save for Gamzee and Alt Calliope, the dialogue feels natural and flows well. Most of the characters motivations so far make sense and the art is stunning, especially the diverse headcanons. I love that and I personally think you're significantly better risk takers with this than Hussie ever was in the comic. I've had a couple of chuckles and genuine smiles, especially during the Team Charge reunion. It was absolutely adorable and it helps that Aradia is my personal favorite troll.
To be honest, I don't have a lot of complaints. Even with Gamzee, who I personally don't care for, I want to see where you take him. I have no idea what to expect there and regardless of how I feel, I'm excited to be on this non-stop party bus.
The biggest complaint I have, though, is Jade. Particularly the way things were resolved with the Vriska fight. I already have a hard time believing that absolutely no one has developed any sort of resistance to Vriska's powers, especially her, since she's been exposed to them over and over her whole life. Even ignoring the fight, the way she just lets Vriska go and believes Terezi didn't feel right. Jade, who doggedly pursued most of her motivations in a lot of shows of stubborness (making the Genesis Tadpole despite Kanaya telling her it couldn't happen, people warning her about Bec Noir and her fighting anyway, the Game Over timeline aura battle with Jake where she probably should have backed down but didnt) just defers to Terezi, who she barely knows? I couldn't buy that. On top of that, it just felt like a continuation of Hussie's habit of trying to write her out of the way. For someone so vital, she's repeatedly denied any sort of resolution or the opportunity to actually be able to pursue her goals for the sake of the narrative. Jade is supposed to be a willful, smart, spitfire of a girl with some issues with loneliness and her own inability to assist, so I'm not sure why she would allow Vriska to get away when she seemed to take her responsibility for Earth very seriously.
I'm sure you've got other plans for her and she'll have her own great little moments, but this didn't really set a good precedent going forward. I know I care a little too much for this character and I do have hope she'll get a chance to really shine, either through aggressive pacifism or through being a good, old-fashioned badass. I'll stick around to see where things go, because there's too much good here and I hope you keep things up. But I really hope things start to look better for Jade.
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Post by bluebird on Oct 22, 2016 19:30:13 GMT
Hey there Probably Needs To Chill! I'm glad you're mostly enjoying Act 8 so far I think the concern re:Jade is a valid, and something that I can only hope our future Jade content compensates for. I do think this particular Jade, after spending 3 years without her human friends and probably holding some serious survivor's guilt, may be a little bit off of her game. But it does seem to continue an unfortunate canon precedent. We definitely do not plan to keep her sidelined forever, as one of the things many team members believe firmly is that Jade Harley Deserves Nice Things.
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Probably Needs To Chill
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Post by Probably Needs To Chill on Oct 22, 2016 22:58:02 GMT
Hey there Probably Needs To Chill! I'm glad you're mostly enjoying Act 8 so far I think the concern re:Jade is a valid, and something that I can only hope our future Jade content compensates for. I do think this particular Jade, after spending 3 years without her human friends and probably holding some serious survivor's guilt, may be a little bit off of her game. But it does seem to continue an unfortunate canon precedent. We definitely do not plan to keep her sidelined forever, as one of the things many team members believe firmly is that Jade Harley Deserves Nice Things. Thank you for responding! However, I remembered the single most horrible, dire, pressing criticism that I must pass you. A truly monstrous critique that I'm not sure anyone can recover from. I hope you'll forgive me for what I'm about to unleash: Jade has not kissed a single girl. Not even one. A true atrocity if ever I've seen any and having been on the Homestuck ride since the beginning, I've seen plenty. (I'm just joking, and I really am thankful you've responded. Good luck and thank you so much for all your hard work.)
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Post by Jetz on Oct 31, 2016 17:24:28 GMT
I guess I'll drop a few thoughts on the adventure, until this place inevitably attracts a problem user or spammer and guest replies get closed down.
Generally it boils down to "I think the feel of the writing in the dialog is spot on, but the actual behaviors of the characters in service to the plot misstep at the most critical moments," if that makes any sense.
For example, when Vriska was pissed off at the events of Act 7, the dialog definitely made it feel like Vriska was doing the talking. In that way, it felt like a natural continuation from her character in Homestuck. When she jumped back to the frog-platform, I knew full well what was about to happen: Given her current furious state and the community's collective desire to see her get some comeuppance for some of the things she did prior to her latest good deed, she was gonna do something too extreme for the other characters' tastes and take on the role of a villain once again. "Fine," I thought, "get it over with." But the exact thing she did made no sense coming from her character. She wanted Earth, didn't say why, others refused her, so she started a fight. Vriska LOVES talking about her plans. She went on for pages about her treasure hunt schemes back in the dream bubbles, and she used fucking diagrams to go into detail about the agenda and fallback plans for Collide. Here we have a character who crippled Tavros, killed him, brought him back to be fused with a creature he's allergic to, nearly got everyone else slain in her hubris to challenge Jack, expended thousands of souls as bait for her treasure hunt, and most recently abused another instance of herself so thoroughly she broke down into tears, and the controversy that makes her the villain of the hour is a basic miscommunication. But I digress.
Another example is the conversation between ghost Calliope and the group. All the characters were well written (though Callie is a bit of a tough call there since there's so little reference material), but then John asks the question on everyone's mind: "Can't I just use my powers to fix things?" This presents a problem of course. Like Jade, his abilities give him a ton of freedom to act how he chooses. Jade had a sun exploding as a convenient way of nerfing her, so how do we limit John's powers? "Calliope: No, don't use them." "John: Well okay." "Me: Did I just turn over two pages here?" I could type up a long sentence explaining how dire the situation is and why nobody should be content with that answer, but I'm gonna assume it's pretty obvious.
Then there's Gamzee. I don't predict this one being too much of an issue going forward, and it's kinda getting sidetracked from my main point, but I wanted to bring it up anyway. You captured his character well enough as far as I can tell, in that I can't understand what he's trying to communicate unless I read it slowly and mentally erase every form of the word "motherfucking." But having an important conversation between him and another character who speaks cryptically makes it hard to follow. I THINK they're saying they're gonna DBZ fusion-dance into another incredible hulk with Calliope at the head, but that's as far as I got. Gamzee is a comedic character for exterminating expendable ones, and his dialog is only as clear as it needs to be. If you want him in serious situations, you'll have to overcome that while still keeping him in character.
Having completely lost my train of thought, I'm scrolling through the text trying to remember a couple other places I wanted to bring up. I will say that the conversation between Jade and John with the crazy space theories illustrates that kind of dialog done much better: one character is difficult to understand, the other plays the straight-man. At first I thought it was weird to hear all this out of Jade, but when she reminded us that she was a space player with a past interest in nuclear engineering who spent years on the ship with very little for company, it made perfect sense. So gold star there for natural character development. Hoping to see what abilities her god tier powers still afford her even without the sun.
Anyway, I wouldn't have bothered typing this all up if I wasn't interested to see where this goes. Just make sure not to cut corners when you need a character to move things along.
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